Comments on: Rich Preacher

By: george

george — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:01:48 +0000

after reading your comments, i couldnt help but ponder, if (and i say this with love and respect) any of you really read the bible. one comment said that christ was homeless and he had no place to lay his head, and then said he is our model. if he is our model, and he was homeless, then why are christians living in houses, and driving cars and not living under bridges, and under card board boxes. that is absolutely obsurd. the scripture tells us to rightly divide the word, why, because you can wrongly divide the word. and after reading your comments, i can tell, there is a lot of wrongly dividing going on. you use luke 9:58 to say Jesus was homeless, and that is taken totally out of context. you cannot take a scripture and just pull it out without understanding what was going on in the surrounding scriptures. Jesus was a travelling minister, and he was just simply telling the man, he was constantly on the go. a bird has its same nest, a fox has it’s same hole, but i have to keep going. he went from town to town to preach the gospel. and if you haven’t read john 1:37-39 i would encourage you to read it.

also, the down playing of a mans success. would you rather see a hole in the wall church than a church that could raise the value of the community, minister to the people and encourage them for better.

why have a website that down grades the gospel. there is no scripture that teaches us to be poor. in luke 4:19 Jesus preached about supernatural debt cancellation (the year of jubille).

there is no place of scripture in the bible that says we should be poor. the bible tells us to give to the poor, but how can you give to the poor if you are poor. everyone that was in covenant with God was rich i.e. abraham, isaac, solomon, david, job, ruth, jesus etc.

case in point, david gave solomon over $131 billion dollars worth of gold and silver to build the temple. just to build the church. the wise men that came to see Jesus, (who was born in a manger because there was no room in the inn, not because they were poor) came with gifts, and it was not 3 wise men like they have in those nativity scenes. when the wise men came from the east, they travelled in caravans of 50-over 100, and they didn’t come with a piece of gold, they came with a lot of gold. Jesus wasn’t a baby, he was about 2 years old when they (wise men) got there and if you study this, you’ll see that the value of the gold, frankincense, and myrrh was in total of todays value of gold, frankincense and myrrh $400,000,000. thats not a typo.

it’s through ignorance of the truth that we think that the preacher as well as the christian should be poor, or just barely getting by.

if anyone should be rich, it should be the christian, not just the preacher but all christians, but all won’t. the Lords desire is for all to be saved, but that won’t happen. the Lords desire is for all to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but all won’t, so we can only conclude that all won’t be rich, and if you ever listen to what these guys preach, versus what others have said, and you believe, you’ll realize that they are preaching the gospel. we need to have a lot of money to send out missionaries, and to staff people to help with the feeding the poor, clothing the naked and all the other things that go along with the gospel, and also to enjoy your life. God desires us to live the good life, and the good life is not poverty and just getting by. we need to stop lying to ourselves, being broke and just getting by is not the way to live. read ephesians 2:10 in the amplified bible, also john 10:10, III john 2, psalm 35:27 and so many other scriptures, including II corinthians 8:9.

ask yourself why are you upset that the preacher is rich, and not upset when a golfer can make over $100 million dollars in one year, or with a basketball or football player who can sign a contract for $20 million dollars a year or an entertainer who can make $50 million in one year. probably because you’ve hooked on the lie that the father of lies has given that the church, the christian, the preachers should be broke.

and for momma, the only reason some preachers are rich, and some are not is simply a lack of understanding. if you reject His word on prosperity , then how can God make you rich.

i would advise you all to pray and really ask the holy spirit to speak to you concerning this matter and open your eyes to the truth.

By: brent

brent — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:12:22 +0000

Scott and Luke, thanks guys!

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:29:42 +0000

So my last comment was not communicated well. A bit out of it on this side of the screen.

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:27:58 +0000

Luke and Brent,

Thank you for opening up and sharing your stories. I appreciate the dialogue between you two gentlemen. Brent, as you often as you want know that you are encouraged to respond to the discussions.

By: Luke

Luke — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:43:41 +0000

I understand your disgust with Christianity, Brent. Using fear to compel people to do what you want them to do is the kind of thing tyrannical dictators do to build their oppressive, self serving empires. It is an ugly and despicable thing, and just as ugly when done in the name of religion. In fact, religion is a very useful (and deadly) tool used by many tyrants and religious leaders alike over the course of history, although some of them probably really did believe in what they were propagating. I also was raised Christian, and was held captive to it by the fear of eternal damnation. When I first began to question the reality of Christ, the stray doubts would come into my head, and in almost a panic I would quickly push them out. I didn’t want to be guilty of that unforgivable sin, denying Jesus. Eventually I got over that though. As time passed I grew bolder in my questioning until I was at the point of openly and definitively rejecting Christianity. Christianity and religion altogether is nothing but an ignorant (and pathetic) attempt by humanity to explain the unknown, or to find purpose, and it is fiercely guarded and promoted by those who rely on its cultural leverage to remain powerful and rich. I finally freed myself from slavery to fear and I laugh at the simplemindedness of anyone who would continue to believe it.

If you are able to relate to any of what I have just said, that is probably where our similarities end. Before I go any further I want to make clear to you that I am not trying to reason you away from your recent enlightenment, or convince you of some alternate truth. I only want to give you a new angle from which to look at this issue just in case no one else has ever said this to you.

To make the story extremely short, I returned to Christianity from a position of complete denial and refutation. It was not, however, because someone fed me some elaborate argument that countered or explained away everything you just stated above. Nor was it the result of some smooth talking preacher, conman or authentic, or any person at all. Nor was it fear of burning in hell. My interpretation of what happened, to the best of my ability, is that Christ became undeniably real to me. As much as I knew he couldn’t be, he was. I could not deny it, and I chose to believe. I know how ludicrous this all most likely sounds to you. There is no way I would have bought that from someone else before it happened to me (I would probably have said you’re still brainwashed, or you’re lying, or it’s some sort of intellectually dishonest psychological phenomenon where you want something to be true so badly that your brain tells you it’s real), so that is why I say there is no point in us trying to argue or reason with each other to our own cause, but I say all this to come to this point: We are actually not all fearful.

Formerly, I rejected a religion that held me captive by way of fear. I never returned to that. When I returned to what I now hold to be the true Christ, it was a religion of hope, life and peace, and loving pursuit of that life for all humanity. To my knowledge, none of the regular commenters on this blog including Scott and anyone else here who may try to reason you out of your belief, no one here believes in Christ out of fear of hell. They believe because Christ has become undeniable to them. And there are many more who believe in Christ for the same reason, even though they have been grossly unsuccessful in proving you wrong. I acknowledge that there are many who believe because they are just too afraid to challenge it or think for themselves, but we are not all fearful.

Like I said, it is pointless for me to try and convince you about the Bible or Christ or preachers (all though you may very well be right about many preachers) that you know to be false and it is equally pointless for you to try to unexplain something to me that I know to be real. I just want you to know that this point of view exists, we are not all held captive by fear, but some of us, rather, by love.

By: Brent

Brent — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:42:39 +0000

at the beginning of my post, i meant to say 28 letters of paul and 16 were chosen

By: Brent

Brent — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:39:35 +0000

Hello Scott,
The bible was pieced together in 325 a.d. under the rule of constantine who set up a panel to decide on the final books. There were originally 40 gospels, 4 were chosen. there were 28 gospels, 16 were chosen. There were 4 apocolyptic books, apocolypse of john-revelation, the apocolypse of mary, the apocolype of peter, and i think the fouth one was thomas. Peter was left out and its believed the reason is of the graphic nature of the visions of hell. The chosen one- john wasnt even cannonized until the 8th century. Thousands of other books were burned in the library of alexandria burning. We know this because of references to them from surviving books by various early authors. Im not sure if you knew also the catholic bible has extra books, the books of the apocrapha. The 1611 version kjv bible has these included but when revised later they were excluded.
Also, in the area where the israelites were in Ugarit–the land of Caanan as referred to in the bible. I think it was in the early 1900’s text were found “the Ugaritic text” these were caananite religious writings that talk about El-the most high god, he had two sons, Baal and your christian god- Yahweh. Baal had a wife named asherah and in other references asherah was referred to as Yahwehs wife. These caananite gods were transcribed into the hebrew bible and these traces of polytheism are in your bible currently. Your bible talks of the asherah pole or tree. It speaks of El-shaddai- a remnant of the caananite god El, It speaks of El ellyon, it speaks of Baal although as a false god. You could see the competitions between the gods like elijah calling fire down from heaven to destroy his contendors alters. In genesis, the word in hebrew El is used meaning “the gods” Let us-”El” make man in our own image.
There are sumerian cuneiforms which are the earliest know writings that speak of a mythological creation story (characters enki and enlil) similar to the bible creation story and these cuneiforms predate your bible, there is a sumerian noah–utnapishtim that predates your bible.
The bible is a collection of myths taken from other earlier stories, it was ancient man trying to understand his world.
There are dying and rising savior gods predating the Jesus story. The Egyptian god Osiris, impregnated the virgin Isis and an earthly incarnation of himself named Horus was born, when horus died he became the star Sirius– similar wording to Osiris. When people died according to this belief, they went into the underworld to be judge by Osiris to see if they could pass into heaven or stay in the underworld.
There are numerous contradiction in the bible. The synoptic gospels Matthew, mark, luke and john, contradict. Matthew version of the healed blind MEN, the demon possessed MEN, and jesus riding into town on “a donkey and a colt at the same time–TWO animals. These three stories are also mentioned by Mark, luke, and john but there is only ONE blind man, ONE demon possessed man, and jesus riding into town on a singular colt.
Matthew claims the donkey and colt story is a fulfilled prophesy from zachariah 9:9 “your king comes to you gentle and riding on a donkey, even a colt, the foal of a donkey” this is however a mention of one animal form zachariah, not two and the jews know this and thats another reason they reject the new testament. By the way, 65% of Israel is non religious-they dont follow judaism either. Zachariah is using hebrew poetic iteration to describe one animal. This is a fact, read zachariah 9:9 again and you will see its one animal as mark, luke, and john agree. Read the rest of zacharia because it shows the messiah as someone who would deliver israel from the romans when he came and that never happened.
I heard pastors speak of over 500 fulfilled prophesies and that used to make me think the bible was a fact until i researched them one by one and found there isnt a single fulfilled prophesy, the ones they point to are merely incidents similar to the donkey and colt story that i just described.
The new testament is nothing more than a plagiarism of the old and the writers scoured the old testament to find alleged “fulfilled prophesies”. The old testament isnt even in order, pauls writings were first then later matthew mark luke and john– these four arent in order either, mark was first, then matthew, luke and john. and you can see the story exagerate from mark on until luke. I can write about this topic all day long, i spend 5 years researching it everyday, it took that long to get over the fear of hell and get past the brainwashing i experienced from age 6 on. Even though i was reading the contradictions and false prophsies and predating dying and rising savior gods, my mind was making excuses to still believe it because i was brainwashed.
Im sorry it was so lengthy, if you want to talk about it anymore we can. Like i said earlier, alot of these pastors know the things im telling you but they are conning you and they dont believe it any more than i do and have made an easy rich life for themselves, dont be confused about why god would let them be rich– its called a con-game, it has nothing to do with a god letting them do anything.

here is a cut and paste about rich pastors—

Benny Hinn, a TV preacher who runs the World Healing Center Church in Grapevine, Texas. Hinn, who travels the globe conducting faith-healing revivals, lives in a seven-bathroom, eight-bedroom mansion overlooking the Pacific Ocean valued at $10 million. It is claimed as a parsonage.
The Rev. Creflo Dollar’s World Changers Church International in College Park, Ga. Dollar drives a Rolls Royce and has large homes in Georgia and New York. He is asked to provide a list of all vehicles provided for himself, his wife, board members and ministry employees.
Paula and Randy White’s Without Walls International Church in Tampa, Fla. In a letter to the ministry, Grassley asks the couple to provide a list of expense account items “including, but not limited to, clothing expenses and any cosmetic surgery for years 2004 to present.”
Joyce Meyer Ministries in Fenton, Mo. Grassley asks Meyer and her husband David to explain expenditures like a $23,000 commode with a marble top, a $30,000 conference table, an $11,000 French clock and a $19,000 pair of vases for the ministry headquarters.
Kenneth Copeland Ministries in Newark, Texas. Copeland is asked to explain how cash offerings are handled during overseas crusades and to explain the use of a ministry jet for “layovers” in Maui, Fiji and Honolulu.
Long’s New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, Ga. Among other things, Long is asked to explain a church official’s 2005 claim that Long no longer accepts a salary from the church but does take a “love offering.”

By: Scott

Scott — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:11:32 +0000

Brent,

What did you find in your research that lead you to the conclusion that the Bible is a pack of lies?

By: Brent

Brent — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:00:53 +0000

for everyone who is having trouble understanding why they are rich, let me spell it out for you. They are con-men. Its not that difficult to understand. They dont believe the bible, hello, do you understand now. They are using it for profit everyone of them. For all you people who keep giving them your money, wake up. creflo dollar, benny hinn, joyce meyer, john hagee, tbn network, peter popoff, rod parsely, none of them believe the nonsense that is the bible. Cant you tell? Con-men like john hagee are the least detectable but he is one too. I can prove it. He wrote a book about marriage with his wife called “what every man wants in a woman and what every woman wants in a man” there are chapters in the book talking about adultery. The funny thing is his current wife who wrote the book with him was previously his secretary he had an affair with on his first wife. He never even mentions his children he had with his first wife, he pretends they dont exist. If you research him you will see many years in the mid 80’s unaccounted for and you will also find out what im claiming is the truth. Also when he preaches look the passages up he refers to and you will find them out of context. Go get a dvr recorder so you can rewind it. Start looking passages up in the bible. Most all pastors are liars and getting filthy rich. Oh by the way, the bible is a pack of lies, start researching its roots, lose your fear. I am an ex christian who was christian for 25 years till i decided to read it and research it to discover there is nothing to fear. Stop being so fearful and gullible, you are an easy target for these rich pastors

By: A different Gospel « Wandering with Reckless Abandon

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